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Topic: 5-HT activity in Kudzu (Read 32671 times) |
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #600 on: Apr 23rd, 2005, 1:25am » |
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on Apr 22nd, 2005, 6:12pm, Zephrah wrote:Oh yeah, sorry Lizzy I forgot, you had stated in an earlier post that your neurologist read a little about Kudzu and told you that you could start taking it. I don't know how to paste it. Sorry. Anyway, if ANY medical professional told you it was okay to take it and they think that was the cause of your bleed, that should be the responsible person.
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Thanks for remembering that.  Yes I did ask my neuro about it. However, even though he read through a lot of the info - including Floridian's site - he told me that when he said okay to try it, that it was not without risks that we may not even know about yet.
I don't blame my neuro for what happened. I really don't blame anyone.
I just want everyone to make sure they are safe. That means discussing it with your doctor. Make sure your doctors know all medications - OTC, prescribed, herbal, and otherwise that you may be taking.
And even then, if the doctor says it is okay, it is best to inform yourself as best as possible to make sure you feel comfortable with the choices you've made.
I am still not sure what is the exact root (no pun intended by saying root!) cause of my bleed, but maybe it was a combination of things. I do know that Kudzu played at least a part in it. I got off as many meds as I was physically able before starting the Kudzu, but I wish I had known more.
I'm really going to spend some time looking into things because I don't want to give up on Kudzu as a great treatment for both migraine and CH despite what happened to me.
Lizzie2/Carrie
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #601 on: Apr 23rd, 2005, 1:30am » |
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on Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:22pm, ivanov wrote:Since I am taking naproxen for my arthritis and fibro this whole bleeding issue with kudzu has gotten me scared shitless.
Lizzie after going over your kudzu survey I saw that you were taking the antibiotic Levaquin. One of the rare side effects of this drug is bleeding and is even contraindicated with the use of Coumadin because of this possibility. I do not know if this was the factor that but you through this terrible ordeal but I think it should be investigated.
Dan |
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Thanks for pointing that out, Dan.
Every clue is another piece to the puzzle for me. I will look into levaquin and its side effects. Perhaps even a very rare side effect of bleeding with levaquin, when combined with Kudzu and a low dose of verapamil may have been what triggered the problem.
When they said "Mush" inside my nose, it was really beyond a normal nose bleed triggered by something that causes a bleeding problem. The oozing was coming from so many places which is why they looked to the Kudzu.
I don't believe it is a fault of human error as to why I bled like that. I believe my body just had a bad reaction. I do believe that the Kudzu played a role, although maybe not a solo role. It may have been in conjunction with some other things, but it still makes me feel that I need to warn others and also be more cautious myself.
Take care,
Carrie/Lizzie2
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #602 on: Apr 23rd, 2005, 1:37am » |
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on Apr 22nd, 2005, 1:40pm, godsjoy777 wrote:All very interesting....Because of these posts I have decided to go off the Zu ( temperarily of course) just for a few days while I get an endodontic surgical proceedure done....I have a retreat on a root canal, plus the Dr is going to do a slight incision to go into the top of the old root and shove the old pin out so she can fill it with all new material.....anyway.....because it involves surgery and possible bleeding, I have decided to just be off the Zu for 3 days prior to the surgery....I didn't think to discuss it with the Endodontist.....Hopeing for pain free nights and days-I still have my O2 and fully intend to get back on it when it is over if the clusters come back.....I've just passed my 7th month mark and going into the 8th month of this cycle....uncharted territory for me....
Hope to meet some of you crazy clusterheads this summer.....maybe I'll be out of cycle by then....(by the grace of God).
Blessings,
Karen |
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Hi Karen,
An important thing to learn from this (which I actually HAD done) is to be sure you inform any physician/dentist/etc that you see of any and all medications you take - including vitamins, herbs, over the counter meds, street drugs included!
I would recommend calling your endodontist and discussing the fact that you take an herbal med. Prior to most surgeries, the surgeon wants herbs to be stopped 2 weeks to 1 month prior to surgery - no matter what it is. However it depends on that particular surgeon's opinion.
Prior to the bleed earlier this week, I was pretty concerned that I'd have to stop the Kudzu on May 1 in preparation for my bilateral knee surgery on June 1 because the Kudzu was actually helping me. I was afraid of how I would get through a month without the benefits that Kudzu had brought to me.
However, it is very important to follow the rules for which meds to stop at what point when having surgery. They don't want to have anyone dying on the table! I even have to stop vitamin supplements (like Magnesium and multivitamins) at least a little bit before surgery. The day of my real sinus surgery (March  , I was told I could only take verapamil and nexium. I wasn't even supposed to take my anti-seizure med, which made me a little nervous! Anesthesia is very particular about it, however.
So...after this long-winded post, please just give your endodontist a call and let him or her know about your Kudzu use and find out when they want you to stop it prior to surgery. It is always best to err on the side of caution. And what do you have to lose from a phone call?
Please be careful,
Lizzie2/Carrie
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #603 on: Apr 23rd, 2005, 2:00am » |
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In two parts...
on Apr 22nd, 2005, 11:01am, ozzy wrote:Carrie,
Maybe it sounds like I won't can't believe the kudzu to be the sole culprit. And I still believe the kudzu is not the sole culprit. Perhaps not the sole culprit, but I do believe it at least played a part.
If you recall, I was the one that suggested to you to check with your doctor(s) before starting on the kudzu. I am sure that before your operation somebody should've asked you to disclose all your medications (including herbal). With all that said, it was the hospital and doctors negligence not to have caught the "mistake" early. I don't feel that any negligence is involved here. Prior to my initial operation on March 8, I was not taking Kudzu. When my neurologist said it was okay for me to try it, he was aware of every single med I was taking - as well as the fact that I had recently had surgery and that I will soon be having bilateral knee surgery. The biggest problem was that he (nor any of us) really know everything we need to know about Kudzu and its effects. I don't fault him. Maybe I should have just studied it more on my own before taking it, but I still am not sure if it would have helped me make a better judgement. $hit happens sometimes. 
You may also recall, that I am a strong advocate of quitting everything before adding a new variable of treatment. It's just part of the scientific method. I agree with you there. In order to really do a clinical trial, usually the person has to be off any other medications that affect the same condition. However, of the meds I was taking...I will say the following:
1. If I go off Nexium, I can't eat...GERD is kinda dangerous if not kept in check.
2. My multivitamin is especially due to the fact that I may choose to get pregnant, and I believe it is important for all women of child-bearing age to take a women's multivitamin - particularly for the added Folate content that may be lacking in our diet as has been proven to reduce the likelihood of neural tube defects in neonates.
3. Verapamil isn't just a headache prevent for me. It also controls hypertension and tachycardia. Going off it is really not an option.
4. Concerta and Klonopin are two that are kind of up for grabs to tell the truth. I actually tried to go off of Concerta the week I was taking the Kudzu. I just can't break up this combination until after I graduate school due to some things I go through on a daily basis. These are two that I should get off at some point...although I do have a problem with memory loss/concentration problems that the concerta greatly helps. And the neuro symptoms I have (such as RLS) are really helped by taking Klonopin...albeit I do not like the hangover feeling I have when I wake up in the morning from it!
5. Levaquin was important at the time because I thought I was having a sinus infection at the time. Turns out, it may have been some bleeding and then dried blood causing a taste/smell of foul drainage. I can't be sure of that at this point.
6. I think I actually did not use Amerge once starting the Kudzu. Maybe once or twice, although I don't remember for sure. I know I have not used Zomig or Oxygen since my initial sinus surgery on March 8 because of needing to avoid using nasal spray meds and also the drying effects of O2.
So all in all, I really did get off every med that I could. I made sure to stop my anti-seizure med before starting Kudzu. I even also stopped taking my Magnesium. Not sure what others I crossed off the list.
You are not saying explicitly that kudzu is bad. Every medication has adverse reactions. I have yet to find something that doesn't have adverse reactions. This is true...with the exception of how I treat my clusters. I use strictly O2 and ice. O2 can be dangerous for some people - and even regular people who could use it to the point of oxygen toxicity. There are always risks, and I agree with you there.
I am sorry it happened to you. You have gone through a lot and continue to go through a lot. Thank you.
I am not sorry to say that kudzu has worked for a great number of us, without nasty side effects. I am not sorry for this either. I think it is wonderful. In fact, prior to my hemorrhage, I was having some pretty decent results from the Kudzu - which is the first "med" which has helped me since I very first started having major problems with any type of headache over 4 years ago. I would love to be able to try it out again once I sort a few things out because I truly believe it is a very viable treatment for some, though not without caution.
I am not sorry to continue saying, check with your doctor(s) before taking new medication
I definitely agree with this, and I did do this.
I am not sorry to continue saying, to check effectiveness, just try one treatment at a time.
I wish I could have done this...except as stated above, I stopped all meds except for those I needed for other conditions. Even though I take verap for CH, it is also important for my hypertension/tachycardia.
Every person is an individual (redundant, I know), individual treatment(s) are warranted. Do what works for you.
Thank you for sharing your (bad) experience. It will be helpful.
Ozzy |
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Continued below....
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #604 on: Apr 23rd, 2005, 2:00am » |
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Continued to Ozzy from above...
All I want is for people to be more careful. Yes, check with your doc. Yes, try to get off all other meds. But sometimes even that is not enough. I thought I was doing everything right. Kudzu alone is probably not the sole reason for what they found when they took me back to the OR, but I do believe it was definitely a contributing factor. I really need to look into more things before I can make a definitive statement.
The main point was to share my story and hopefully at least show people the extreme caution we need to take when trying anything new - herbal, prescription or otherwise. Nothing is without risks, as you have also so stated.
I don't think we are in total disagreement here. I will always keep Kudzu in mind as a potential excellent treatment for those with CH...especially those not helped by more traditional treatments. I just think that we need to address the good and the bad. I'm sorry if it came across that all I was stating was the bad. It's been a rough week, and I was scared for my life when I had that bleed. The results from the surgery were very disturbing to me, and of course they made me worry not only for myself, but also for others who are trying Kudzu and may have other issues going on.
It will take ages before we really know all we need to know about Kudzu or any medication (herbal or otherwise), but I DO think it is important to share both good and bad experiences. If I get far enough away from the surgeries, I may try to add it back at a very low dose for awhile and then just see what happens with some very careful monitoring.
I hope we can just let sleeping dogs lie at this point and recognize that we've both made valid points. My intention is not to destroy the idea that people should try Kudzu, but simply that they should be more informed than even a "go ahead" from the doc because sometimes even that is not enough!
I don't blame my doc, anyone here, or myself for what happened. Things happen, and I still believe in accidents or bad reactions with no really great explanations.
Take care,
Carrie
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #605 on: Apr 27th, 2005, 9:41am » |
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Interesting observations:
1. I have bottles of Nature's Way and Nature's Plus. The latter does not seem to be as potent as the former (even on gassy side effects, Nature's Way is "way" more potent.
2. I've been with a cold the last few days. I took a decongestant for the stuffiness/runny nose. Well I took the decongestant 3 times. Results? For some reason, it seemed to interfere with the kudzu and I got hit. I stopped the decongestant and I'm back to pain free (took two days to be PF again) So keep it in mind. I think floridian wrote a long while ago about how the decongestants mess with the hypothalamous.
3.I should be in the middle of miserable allergy season. People around me, have it. Not me so far. May be a side effect of kudzu (not a far stretch, someone reported before that the other alternative treatment prevented allergies for them, being that both alternatives seem to work on the same receptors, it is not far fetched). ....BTW, I know the differebce between an allergy reaction to pollen and a the common cold. If you don't....look it up.
Ozzy
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TxBasslady
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #606 on: Apr 27th, 2005, 11:22am » |
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I started taking Kudzu (Nature's Way 613mg) Feb 24th .
I have not taken any triptan meds since sometime in early February. I was having CH's right up to the 24th of Feb, but fought the battle without the triptan's, cause I wanted to try the Kudzu. I read everything Floridian post's. ( This is my choice...and not meant to mean that everyone should )
I take to heart the cautions of mixing Triptan's...and/or other meds. I started back taking the Melatonin when I started the Kudzu, but realized real quick that the Melatonin was something I could no longer tolerate. I had taken Melatonin since April of 2004...in December of 2004, the Melatonin stopped working for me. A couple of times since Dec, I tried going back on the Melatonin...to no avail.
On April 5th, I had a Kip 8. Before that I had a few shadows and some hits.....but nothing that the Kudzu couldn't handle. I have shadowed maybe twice since the 5th. I have taken the Kudzu faithfully....and at the same time each day. However, twice in the last 5 days, I have intentionally waited and put off taking the Kudzu at my regular times to see if it would have any effect on me. This is something I could not do when I started the Kudzu. If I was a couple hours late taking it, I would shadow. Happy to report that taking only 1 dose in 12 hours has been successful. I no longer have the shadows (knock on wood), and I personally think I could taper down on the Kudzu and be ok. Not sure if I'll do that just yet though.
I do keep a diary....and one thing noted...since taking the Kudzu, all the hits I had were Kip 10's. No 2's or 3's but 10's. (this excludes the April 5th hit) I was able to make it thru the Kip 10's with cold compresses...and they only lasted 10 to 15 minutes.
I do take a multivitamin, B-50 Complex, and CoQ10 each day. All in all, the Kudzu has been a god-send to me. Of course, I said the same thing about the Melatonin...but it did give me many months of PF time before it quit working. Fingers crossed....I hope the Kudzu keeps on workin' for me. I think I was in a virtual cycle....with no beginning or end.
For the first time in a year....I am able to lie down in a bed to sleep.
PF vibes,
Jean
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #607 on: Apr 27th, 2005, 2:18pm » |
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That's good news, Jean.
I'm not going to tempt fate and go off it anytime soon.
Ozzy...interesting. I've been taking antihistimines (Claritin) lately and haven't noticed any problems with kudzu effectiveness. I missed a dose of 'zu the other day (actually- I took it 2 hours late) and suffered with a hit and heavy shadows that evening. I've become a total wuss now and could kick myself in the ass when I forget.
Pluggin' away, nani
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #608 on: Apr 28th, 2005, 10:50pm » |
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on Apr 27th, 2005, 2:18pm, nani wrote:| I've been taking antihistimines (Claritin) lately and haven't noticed any problems with kudzu effectiveness. |
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Unless you're taking Claritin-D (D for decongestant), you won't run into what Oz's talking about. It's the
Pseudoephedrine that would be the kicker.
Quote:| I missed a dose of 'zu the other day (actually- I took it 2 hours late) and suffered with a hit and heavy shadows that evening. I've become a total wuss now and could kick myself in the ass when I forget. |
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Tsk tsk. That's like diabetics forgetting their insulin, or a cop forgetting his gun. Bad form. Keep it up, and in your next life you'll come back as a rock.
Is it time for a new recruitment drive? More fresh blood for the beta tests? The other alt therapy threads seem to have a bit of a bite to them lately, but alas.........that's what happens when cousins marry.
More sacrificial virgins.
RJ
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #609 on: Apr 29th, 2005, 9:20am » |
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RJ, I know that decongestants and antihistimines are different, but since they are often taken together, I thought I'd bring up my experience.
As far as new testers....yes...we need a few more...but I'm no longer recruiting. I no longer get the bonus money from the kudzu manufacturers... 
No, really, folks should try it....if and when they fully inform themselves. It's working for a lot of us, didn't work for a couple of us and may have been dangerous for 3 of us. Know the potential risks and weigh them against your suffering. Just my 
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #610 on: May 2nd, 2005, 4:36pm » |
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More experiments....
I tried skipping my morning dose of 'Zu. Not a good idea. Got hit last night (this morning) at 3:00 am and then again at 6:00 am.
Learned my lesson.
I had some remaining shadows afterwards and decided to "kill" them with my backup abortive...Red Bull.
It worked nicely.
BTW, O2 didn't even touch it.
Hopefully I'll be back to PF again soon.
Ozzy
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Smartin
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #611 on: May 3rd, 2005, 2:04pm » |
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Hey folks,
I started my episode on April 17th when during a flight back to Phoenix from Indy, I had a bloody mary and it triggered an kip 5. The first one after 13 months pf.
I discovered y'all in Jan 04 at the end of my last episode and went on Verap. (For 30 years, I thought I had "sinus headaches!!" according to my uniformed and thoughtless docs.) Now I thought that I had found the cure when I went through my usual episode time pf. Now this surprise visit from the monster. I posted in January that I was grateful for the advise I got from this site and that I was cured. I think someone posted back to say..."don't let your guard down. the beast can strike again at any time." I didn't believe them.
Doc and I have upped the verap to 240 and I have a limited supply of Zomig. The O2 is stuck in referral at my insurance company...(I sent my tank back in Feb when the usual episode did not materialize...foolish me!!!) though I should get it today or tomorrow. I didn't want to use up all of my Zomig so early in the month and so on Sunday I thought I could ride out an HA. It was a doozie...10 and knocked my sox off...I burned the dinner I was cooking; hollered at the dog; hollered at the neighbor's kid; ignored my partner for two hours; and pretty much decided that I was gonna die this time.
Sunday night I started on Melatonin and last night only had a fairly tolerable k5. Today I started on ZU.
My cycles usually last for 2 to 3 months and build in intensity and frequency for the first month until Im getting 3 or 4 a day then they start to taper down the last month.
I've been reading a lot here about ZU and hope that it works for me. I have notified my doc of my decision to try ZU and she asked that I come in for a check-up next week just to see how Im doing. (More on my doc some other time...it's been a real trial.) I will continue to watch the posts to see how people determine if they have reached the end of their cycle and stop taking the ZU. Thanks all for your input, care, concern and encouragement. Although I don't post much, I just need to say..."You're my heros!" 
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seasonalboomer
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #612 on: May 3rd, 2005, 2:37pm » |
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Hey Smartin'
Welcome to Zu-land. Good luck.
Remember a couple of things over the next couple of days. Not many went pain-free overnight. Most had some type of strange altering of their cycle in some manner before they saw the best results. And the best results were not gained without discipline of making sure you take on schedule and appropriate dose. Not to mention trying to get good night sleep and avoid the same things you would if you were in cycle (which you still are, but you just hopefully won't be feeling the hits).
Here's hoping you can have some success on the Zu. After you have completed 7 days, please don't forget to post your test results on the test thread. And, give that dog an extra pet on the head for putting up with you through a kip 10 (as for the neighbor kid -- he/she probably deserved it)
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Tiannia
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #613 on: May 3rd, 2005, 5:27pm » |
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OK here is what is happeneing with me.
AFter I ran out of Kudzu, I will make sure that NEVER happens again. (Thank you Jean and Frank you war angels an Earth.) I am currently taking 2 613 Natures Way 3 times a day. I have learned that I need to take them at the same time everyday or I will get hit. But for the most part I can say that I am 85% PF. After almost a two Years of this, I am extactic. I am still getting hit I know. I will get the sweats and feel the preassure around my eye but I dont get the pain with it. My husband does not understand why if I am not getting the pain am I up at midnight walking around outside. It is habit, I still am waking up with the HA and go outside because it helps to cool me off. I think that my body is trained still. I am not up as long as I used to be, but still. I am getting HA that I have to fight about 1-2 every day or two. But this is great. They are normally not high kip, so no biggie. The few that do knock me up side my head... well I do still have trex, but it is not as effective to abourt now witht he kudzu. So I only use it as a last resort.
The guy at GNC... well he is ordering 4 bottles for me every month and I have it set up to get them the 1st week of each month. I have 6 bottles under my bathroom counter right now.
PF Wishes everyone.
-Tia
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #614 on: May 4th, 2005, 6:48pm » |
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Requested info on Kudzu......max dose, LD 50, side effects, yeda yeda yeda.....
So much for getting an intelligent response from the suppliers.
We're _So_ on our own.
RJ
====================================
Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:59:51 -0600 [01:59:51 PM PDT]
From: Info-Internet Customer Service <info@NaturesWay.com>
To: "Randy Jones via Naturesway.com" <Randy@kudzubusters.com>
Subject: RE: General E-mail comments/questions via naturesway.com
Headers: Show All Headers
Thank you for sharing this with us but all we can give you is what is on the label. We are not a research company and would only have what is currently understood is the use for Kudzu.
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #615 on: May 4th, 2005, 7:01pm » |
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on May 4th, 2005, 6:48pm, Mr. Happy wrote:Requested info on Kudzu......max dose, LD 50, side effects, yeda yeda yeda.....
So much for getting an intelligent response from the suppliers.
We're _So_ on our own.
RJ
Thank you for sharing this with us but all we can give you is what is on the label. We are not a research company and would only have what is currently understood is the use for Kudzu. |
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Just curious, what is Kudzu used for ?
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #616 on: May 4th, 2005, 10:09pm » |
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on May 4th, 2005, 7:01pm, BlueMeanie wrote:| Just curious, what is Kudzu used for ? |
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CH.
Was this a trick question?
Planetary Formulas didn't want to be left out of the $64,000 question, either:
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Thank you for contacting Planetary Formulas. Unfortunately, we don't run clinical tests on our products, and therefore, I am unable to provide any specific tests as to high dosages, etc.. There doesn't appear to be any adverse reactions when taking appropriately and responsible. I think that your research sounds very interesting, and I have passed the information along to our product development department.
Some common information sites might help with your research would be:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101640.sht ml
http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h329.htm
Thanks again for your inquiry. I wish that I could be more helpful.> Best in health.
>
> John Taussig
> Customer Service Research Rep
> Planetary Formulas
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TxBasslady
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #617 on: May 5th, 2005, 1:08am » |
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Bob,
Actually, it says it's for alcohol dependency.
I know it's used for several things though.
Tia,
So glad you got the Kudzu problem solved, sweetie!
Kinda strange....how we have to take it pretty much the same time every day 
PF vibes,
Jean
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #618 on: May 5th, 2005, 10:02am » |
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Jean,
As far as, the having to take it at the same time every day. To me that would indicate that the half life of kudzu is in the 4-6 hours range. This also corresponds with what my wife experienced with Kudzu and Imitrex. Taking trex 30 mins after kudzu, had no effect on her migraine. Taking trex 4 hours later, worked. Usually the trex works the first time (She was using trex instead of amerge, because she ran out)
I have also been taking it for a while (3 months I think) and can now pretty much space it out whithin certain windows during the day. MEaning, I take kudzu 3 times a day at 7am, 12pm, 10pm (+ or - 2 hours). By looking at it, I basically load up in the morning and then I'm good for the day. If I skip the noon one. I'm in trouble. If I skip the morning one. I'm in trouble. I haven't tried skipping the nightime one. Maybe I'll try that tonight, or tomorrow, since I don't work Saturday...I'll think about that one.
Ozzy
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #619 on: May 8th, 2005, 11:45am » |
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Hey, Mr Happy...write those company's back and tell them we'll be their "research" for free kudzu...
Just goes to show you, though...we're really on our own here. Proceed with caution...
...as an aside, I had a margarita last night...no ill effects, either CH or possible "antabuse" type reactions. Next time, I'll have 2.
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #620 on: May 8th, 2005, 11:56am » |
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on May 8th, 2005, 11:45am, nani wrote:Hey, Mr Happy...write those company's back and tell them we'll be their "research" for free kudzu...
Just goes to show you, though...we're really on our own here. Proceed with caution...
...as an aside, I had a margarita last night...no ill effects, either CH or possible "antabuse" type reactions. Next time, I'll have 2. |
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LOL if it acted like antabuse, you better not be drinking...the drug antabuse, that is. You can't drink on that med, or it will have some pretty bad reactions. That's why, when they give it to recovering alcoholics, they have to make sure they won't even use cough syrup with any alcohol in it. Just a drop of alcohol on that med can cause some pretty nasty effects.
However, I do get curious how many people taking Kudzu here have also found it to be helpful with any other addictions/cravings - such as alcohol, smoking, etc.
Just a passing thought.
Lizzie
edited to modify my post after further posting more info on Antabuse.... 
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| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2005, 12:55pm by Lizzie2 » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #621 on: May 8th, 2005, 12:00pm » |
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DEAD?!? Shoot, had I known that...  Someone here said that kudzu was herbal "antabuse"...can't remember who...
Whew...
As far as my addictions...can't say I smoke less or eat less chocolate.  Of course, I haven't tried to quit or cut down, either.
edited to add: Carrie good luck on your LAST final, tomorrow!! WhooHoo..... 
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| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2005, 12:01pm by nani » |
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #622 on: May 8th, 2005, 12:08pm » |
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Thanks for the good luck on the final!! I've been studying like crazy (last night and will pick up again today) because my grade in that class sucks. Hopefully I'll do well on the final!!
I may have over-exaggerated with the use of the term "dead" - in my next post, I'll post the drug info for Antabuse - I still wouldn't risk mixing antabuse with alcohol, given the reactions that can ensue!! At any rate, I have no idea if Kudzu is like herbal antabuse. From what my thinking is, Kudzu has the potential to reduce cravings but not make you actually sick to the point of near death if you drink while on it! I dunno that much about it, though! Cont'd in the next post because the drug info took up too much space...
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #623 on: May 8th, 2005, 12:17pm » |
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Quote:Mosby's Drug Consult
Copyright © 2005 Mosby, Inc.
Disulfiram(001094)
[ dye-sul'-fi-ram ]
CATEGORIES:
Ingredients: Disulfiram
Indications: Alcohol, dependence
Pregnancy Category C
FDA Approved 1953-06-01
DRUG CLASS: Antialcoholics
BRAND NAMES: Antabus (Austria, Bulgaria, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey); Antabuse (US); Busetal (Peru); Difiram (Thailand); Esperal (France, India, Russia); Nocbin (Japan); Refusal (Netherlands); Tetradin (Portugal)
(International brand names outside U.S. in italics)
WARNING:
Disulfiram should never be administered to a patient when he is in a state of alcohol intoxication, or without his full knowledge.
The physician should instruct relatives accordingly.
DESCRIPTION:
Chemical Name: bis(diethylthiocarbamoyl) disulfide.
Disulfiram occurs as a white-to-off-white, odorless, and almost tasteless powder, soluble in water to the extent of about 20 mg in 100 ml, and in alcohol to the extent of about 3.8 g in 100 ml.
Disulfiram contains these inactive ingredients: magnesium aluminum silicate; magnesium stearate; povidone; starch.
CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY:
Action
Disulfiram produces a sensitivity to alcohol which results in a highly unpleasant reaction when the patient under treatment ingests even small amounts of alcohol.
Disulfiram blocks the oxidation of alcohol at the acetaldehyde stage. During alcohol metabolism following disulfiram intake, the concentration of acetaldehyde occurring in the blood may be 5-10 times higher than that found during metabolism of the same amount of alcohol alone.
Accumulation of acetaldehyde in the blood produces a complex of highly unpleasant symptoms referred to hereinafter as the disulfiram-alcohol reaction. This reaction, which is proportional to the dosage of both disulfiram and alcohol, will persist as long as alcohol is being metabolized. Disulfiram does not appear to influence the rate of alcohol elimination from the body.
Disulfiram is absorbed slowly from the gastrointestinal tract and eliminated slowly from the body. One (1) (or even 2) weeks after a patient has taken his last dose of disulfiram, ingestion of alcohol may produce unpleasant symptoms.
Prolonged administration of disulfiram does not produce tolerance; the longer a patient remains on therapy, the more exquisitely sensitive he becomes to alcohol.
INDICATIONS AND USAGE:
Disulfiram is an aid in the management of selected chronic alcoholic patients who want to remain in a state of enforced sobriety so that supportive and psychotherapeutic treatment may be applied to best advantage.
Disulfiram is not a cure for alcoholism. When used alone, without proper motivation and supportive therapy, it is unlikely that it will have any substantive effect on the drinking pattern of the chronic alcoholic.
CONTRAINDICATIONS:
Patients who are receiving or have recently received metronidazole, paraldehyde, alcohol, or alcohol-containing preparations, e.g., cough syrups, tonics and the like, should not be given disulfiram.
Disulfiram is contraindicated in the presence of severe myocardial disease or coronary occlusion, psychoses, and hypersensitivity to disulfiram or to other thiuram derivatives used in pesticides and rubber vulcanization.
WARNINGS:
Disulfiram should never be administered to a patient when he is in a state of alcohol intoxication, or without his full knowledge.
The physician should instruct relatives accordingly.
The patient must be fully informed of the disulfiram-alcohol reaction. He must be strongly cautioned against surreptitious drinking while taking the drug, and he must be fully aware of possible consequences. He should be warned to avoid alcohol in disguised form, i.e., in sauces, vinegars, cough mixtures, and even aftershave lotions and back rubs. He should also be warned that reactions may occur with alcohol up to 14 days after ingesting disullfiram.
The Disulfiram-Alcohol Reaction
Disulfiram plus alcohol, even small amounts, produces flushing, throbbing in head and neck, throbbing headache, respiratory difficulty, nausea, copious vomiting, sweating, thirst, chest pain, palpitation, dyspnea, hyperventilation, tachycardia, hypotension, syncope, marked uneasiness, weakness, vertigo, blurred vision, and confusion. In severe reactions there may be respiratory depression, cardiovascular collapse, arrhythmias, myocardial infarction, acute congestive heart failure, unconsciousness, convulsions, and death.
The intensity of the reaction varies with each individual but is generally proportional to the amounts of disulfiram and alcohol ingested. Mild reactions may occur in the sensitive individual when the blood alcohol concentration is increased to as little as 5-10 mg/100 ml. Symptoms are fully developed at 50 mg/100 ml, and unconsciousness usually results when the blood alcohol level reaches 125-150 mg.
The duration of the reaction varies from 30-60 minutes, to several hours in the more severe cases, or as long as there is alcohol in the blood.
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Lizzie2
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #624 on: May 8th, 2005, 12:20pm » |
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There's more info, but it is all too long to post, and in general not needed in this thread unless someone really is thinking Kudzu is just like antabuse and then translates that if it is okay to drink in Kudzu, it's okay to drink on antabuse, which is not at all the case - but I think you get my point!
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