ohioterpes wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 12:52pm:



Glad you made it through the finals.

We are all here for pain relief.
How we get it is how we differ.
CH neuro specialists can do it without narcotics.
It is a choice.
You and you doctor have the choice to make.

O2 is worth a try in my opinion

Paul

the pain meds help both the chronic back pain and CH because my CH is not typical 15-35 min attack, it is a 3-4 hour attack 2-4 times a day. so it is not hard to put two and two together and see that CH and chronic back pain can be treated with the same medication it is best to do so.

Narcotics are likely causing the headaches to be longer and/or more intense that they may otherwise be:

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Laurie

I'm not talking about his first few posts. I'm talking about Linda's response afterwards.

That's what was innapropriate. Telling him he'll be an addict after he stated he would already have to be on it for another painful condition, was what was jerkish.

And you're right, you aren't counsellors. You're not pain management doctors either. Telling him that it may make it longer is fine, but harping on the addict shit, isn't right.

Does he take the pain meds, be able to function and walk around normally, or....

Stop the pain meds and become bedridden?

When you have an injury that severe, that is your choice.

He even stated that was the choice he had. More than likely? His doctors decided that it was easier to treat it like this, since he was already going to have to take it.

It doesn't always become a habit, if you were a pain management doctor, or someone who had been in it long term, you would comprehend that.

So, what would YOUR choice be?

Be able to function enough to have a life, even if you had to suffer with the CH a little longer than normal....

Or be stuck in bed, in even more pain due to the fact you've got a lot more pain on TOP of your CH?

ETA: If you want to see the post where he mentioned his back problem, it's at the bottom of the first page.

Her post was on the second page.

Oh good lord,

Why do we get into this ridiculous narcotics conversation every few months?  It escalates and escalates until someone finally says that yes, they do work for about 20% of people but they should be used as a last resort for lots of reasons, and then they link to all of the places that say exactly that. In the mean time the person's question never gets properly answered.

In this case, finals are over and now would be a good time to try and find alternatives. If Imi doesn't work for you or seems to make things worse, this is going to sound strange but ask for a smaller dose. If I take a full dose it immediately makes things worse, then someone told me the sensations I described were symptoms of overdose and to try less. 1/4 of a syringe works best for me, but I still avoid it because it causes rebounds for me for the following 3 days, the way that narcotics seem to cause rebounds for most of the people here. That being said, if I have an event that is a few hours long and I need relief I can take the Imi and deal with the consequences later.

Another option is to take less vicodin, enough to dull the pain a bit but not get rid of it, with LOTS of energy drink. I recommend the giant cans of Monster energy drink that you can find in convenience stores. They're kind of expensive, but two of them will get you through 8 hours with nothing more than minor shadows.

But now that it no longer matters, research the treatment protocols and see if your doc can prescribe something else for you, something that doesn't have the dangers of narcotics.

Pixie-elf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 6:08pm:

  Linda's response is spot on.

      Kinder gentler Potter

Using narcotics for CH is like like hitting a nail with a feather. You can hit the nail all you want and it will still be there in the same position.
It's a quality of life issue. The narcotics take your quality of life the same as CH.
Linda is correct. And I thank her for her comment. Ditto
the bb

Pixie-elf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 9:12pm:


How about dealing with the CH pain via the safer routes and finding an alternative relief for the back pain which does not risk making the CH worse?
The narcotics sure as hell aren't helping if there are 3-4 hour multiple attacks

W

Pixie-elf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 9:24pm:



Sorry but am too old to believe that the only reason Doctors prescribe narcotics for pain is that there is no other option.
Lazy doctors do it all the time here, and patients don't argue, they just take them, and then keep taking them.....

W

pubgirl wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 9:27pm:


The thing is, even if a doctor IS lazy? If you're a chronic pain patient, they fully anticipate you to have this problem all of your life. The younger you are, the more problems narcotics long term are considered to cause.

Unless a doctor flat out doesn't care if he gets sued, he WILL think about what to do in the situation. The fact is, the body will eventually get used to vicodin. It'll become tolerant to it.

Then they have to switch you to something else. Eventually you run out of non-triple-script medications and have to go to the big boys.

If it's a short term problem, it's another story. Long term, it's different. At least in Texas it is. And here? If you screw up, your liscense is taken. Even if it's not for something medical related, you might get it revoked.

ETA: If someone wants to list the other options available for pain treatment, please do. Because obviously, I've missed something. I've listed narcs, physical therapy, chiro, acupuncture, and surgery.

Hypnosis only works on some. Acupressure can help but I've never had as much success with it. Just dealing with it isn't an option if you want to live a normal, active life.

Pixie-elf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 9:42pm:


Accusing people here of "not caring" is unfair. There are other options but that isn't where the expertise on this board lies. That is what specialist pain clinics are for. Goadsby values what he calls his "expert patients" i.e. us, but we are expert in CH, not the management of body pain.

ohioterpes has what has been diagnosed as CH but that diagnosis looks far from certain, in addition there is chronic other pain. ALL we are saying is that narcotics are NOT the answer for CH and asking them to explore alternatives for BOTH kinds of pain.

Resistance to this and justification for the use of narcotics for both conditions by you or ohioterpesjust worries us

W

I'm afraid to even open my mouth on this subject, for fear of alienating myself from the ONLY group of people who understand what I'm going through, and I am truly grateful for this website...BUT...

We are not doctors. period. We don't know this person, or his medical history, or his allergies, or what has and hasn't worked so far for him.  and yet everyone is so quick to tell him he is wrong, wrong, wrong for taking his prescription medication, and the general tone is that narcotics are NEVER okay for CH (or anything else.)

Mystina is right- there's a fine line between addiction and dependency.  Who of us here on this board isn't "dependent" on at least one medication?  And the last time I checked, every one of these CH meds or preventatives we take has its own laundry list of long-term negative side effects to worry about.

The thing that is bothering me is that so many people are being very quick to claim that they know more about this than this kid's doctor.  That is a dangerous path to go down.  I have no doubt that there is a treasure trove of information to be had on this site- but you cannot let that keep people from trying what works for them.  Reread the posts; he's not being told to be careful and do some research, he's being told that his doctor is flat out wrong.  Not a single one of you has even asked for the doc's name so you can look up his credentials.

I love you all like family after only a couple of months, and I'm so glad to be here; but for the record, I myself have 3-4 hour cluster attacks without ever having had anything to give me a rebound, and I have tried everything suggested on this board, and nothing has worked for me except Floricet, which has a mild narcotic. 

And if you talk about quality of life, I cannot BELIEVE that any one of you would consider for one second that living with CH pain is somehow BETTER than being on narcotics.  No offense, but you guys are starting to make me feel like some kind of dirty, low-life junkie, and that's the last thing I need right now when I'm dealing with K9's, finals, and a toddler.

Pixie-elf wrote on Dec 18^th, 2008 at 1:26am:



If things change to the point where we CAN'T ask questions to explore a person's symptoms and CAN'T ask what options they have considered instead of narcotics, then this board is worthless and I for one would be gone for good.

If every doctor diagnosed correctly and treated correctly your theory would work, but they don't and there will always be new visitors taking all kinds of drugs who will be asked questions.

That is because people here DO care and mostly are asking the questions for very good reasons born from experience

W