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Topic: 5-HT activity in Kudzu (Read 32700 times) |
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Jeepgun
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #250 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:31pm » |
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I've been getting one shadow, every evening, since last Thursday. This morning, I had a half-hour shadow, and right now, (1430) I'm shadowing again... 
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| « Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:31pm by Jeepgun » |
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Bob P
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #251 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:49pm » |
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But are your boobs tender Frank?
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Jeepgun
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #252 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:55pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:49pm, Bob P wrote:| But are your boobs tender Frank? |
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Not since taking a couple of Midol. 
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dougchunyo
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #253 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:58pm » |
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MAN-BOOBS 
I just took my first dose, hoping it works.
Got a big kick out of the discussion about estrogen v. phytoestrogen. I knew it wouldn't cause any problems.
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #254 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 4:39pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2005, 3:58pm, dougchunyo wrote:MAN-BOOBS
I just took my first dose, hoping it works.
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Hoping it works for your CH, or to give you man-boobs?
Casey
here we go again...
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Bob P
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #255 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 4:44pm » |
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Quote:Estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata][Article in Chinese]
Zheng G, Zhang X, Zheng J, Meng Q, Zheng D.
Institute of Metaria Medica, Zhejiang Academy of Medical Sciences, Hangzhou 210013.
OBJECTIVE: To study the estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata (TIP) in vivo. METHODS: Puerarin and TIP were orally administrated to ovariectomized rats, infancy or adult mice and estrogen-treated mice at the doses of 150, 300 and 600 mg/kg for 5-9 days. The estrogen-like effects were measured by viginacytology and uterus or ovary weights. RESULTS: Puerarin and TIP significantly promoted uterus growth in ovariectomized rats and infancy mice, increased the ratios of keratocytes in vaginal smear in ovariectomized rats. The sexual cycle was partially recovered in dose-dependent manner. In E2-treated mice, puerarin and TIP obviously inhibited the growth of vigina induced by E2. No obvious effect was observed in normal adult mice. CONCLUSION: The results showed that puerarin and TIP acted as weak estrogen-like effect on estrogen-deficiency animals, while no effect on normal-estrogen level ones, but as antiestrogen-like effect in high-estrogen-level ones. These results suggested that puerarin and TIP possessed property of partial agonist of estrogen receptor.
PMID: 12599693 [PubMed - in process] |
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I'm not sure about the man-boobs but it may promote uterus growth!
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #256 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 4:56pm » |
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Yeah, but if you read carefully,
Tiny mice are getting a dose far above what humans take - 150 to 600 mg / kg in mice vs less than 150 mg for a person weighing 40 - 100 kilos. And in the mice, different doses had different effects.
Plus:
1) Mild Estrogen-like effect in estrogen deficient mice
2) No estrogen effect in normal mice
3) Anti-estrogen effect in mice whose estrogen is already high.
Check my memory on this, but I think obesity is the main cause of man-boobs ... estrogen (the real, full strength stuff) is produced by adipocytes (fat cells) in men.
The effect on a developing fetus might be significant (and caution is always advised there). Children are probably more susceptible than adults.
There could be side effects. But I doubt it will turn George into Boy George or Georgina.
I sweeten my kudzu with saccharin!! Are we not men??
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| « Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2005, 4:59pm by floridian » |
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toolong
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #257 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 5:40pm » |
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Let's see now I'm on my 7th day of Kudzu,Solray Kudzu extract 150mg.I read in the previous threads all kinds of different dosages.Not quite sure if I'm taking the right ammount.Boobs are not sore,but CH are letting up. Living the last couple of days with just shadows.I am chronic so I take the Kudzu every day 150mg one in the morning and one at bed time.If I increase dosage will it help?And should it be taken all at once.Just trying to find my way thru to a PF day.  David
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Hey,watch this!I saw it on a cartoon and I think it might work!
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #258 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 6:04pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2005, 5:40pm, toolong wrote:| Let's see now I'm on my 7th day of Kudzu,Solray Kudzu extract 150mg.I read in the previous threads all kinds of different dosages.Not quite sure if I'm taking the right ammount.Boobs are not sore,but CH are letting up. Living the last couple of days with just shadows.I am chronic so I take the Kudzu every day 150mg one in the morning and one at bed time.If I increase dosage will it help?And should it be taken all at once.Just trying to find my way thru to a PF day. David |
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David,
I am on the Solaray. I take 1 pill 3 x a day. Morning, noon, evening. I am not sure if 3 is better than 2, but I figured it couldn't hurt. And, it doesn't. I hope it works out for you. Today is day 14 for me, and it is going really well.
Casey
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #259 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 10:50pm » |
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Thanks for getting back on topic, folks... 
David, I'm taking 1500 mgs a day. Some people are taking their biggest dose about an hour before their regular hits/shadows. That seems to be working for some. See if you see a pattern to the hits and dose accordingly (?)
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or even a kudzu expert...just a sufferer who is thankful that it's working for me.
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #260 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:22pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2005, 10:50pm, nani wrote:
David, I'm taking 1500 mgs a day. |
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This is the discrepancy that I have been confused/worried about. nani, and others, are on 1500 mgs/day. However, she is on a blend of Kudzu with other *stuff* included. Not that this is better or worse, its just if I were to take 1500 mgs of the Solaray, I would be taking 10 pills a day, and getting a total of 1500 mgs of Kudzu Root extract, with 30 mgs of that being daidzin; along with 1650 mgs of Kudzu extract. I am not sure, but I believe that that would be a significantly bigger dose than if I were taking 1500 mgs of a blend.
Do we have a db/survey of the different types of kudzu people are taking and how much? Is this dosage issue even important? I think so, but I honestly do not know.
Casey
edited to say that I am afraid that 10 of my pills a day would give me man-boobs 
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| « Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:24pm by clarence » |
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #261 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:34pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:22pm, clarence wrote:
This is the discrepancy that I have been confused/worried about. |
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Me too, man. We're still in the fooling around stage. Nothing wrong with that, but if it's as promising as it looks.........we outta have 25 unrepentant sinners on the exact same brand/dose/day.......not exactly a blind study, but at least minimal controls. A 10 or 15 question input form might be in order.
Not that anything we'd do like this would have any value in the medical journals, but it'd get the attention of some serious research people. Kinda.
Things to look forward to.
RJ
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| « Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:47pm by Mr. Happy » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #262 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:46pm » |
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Agreed...I don't think my bottle mentions the daidzin at all. (I could be wrong...still don't have the reading glasses.) And mine does have additional herbs. So what would we do next?
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #263 on: Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:58pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2005, 11:46pm, nani wrote:| And mine does have additional herbs. So what would we do next? |
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Floridian started all this hoopla. We outta let him pick the pill de jour, and blame him when all our kids are born with birth defects, and we get jaundice. Darn near everything he says makes sense to me. And he's always backing it up with published medical doctrines and stuff.
C'mon, big fella......step up to the plate.
RJ
Edited due to Bacardi Límon
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2005, 12:36am by Mr. Happy » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #264 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 12:00am » |
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I'm in. I need to pick up a new bottle soon anyway. Flo...what should I get?
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dougchunyo
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #265 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 7:38am » |
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I appreciated the "man-boob" stuff - best laugh I've had in a while.
Now back to business -
If most of you are like me, and anything tried in the past eventually loses effectiveness, would it not be advisable to stick with whatever form of the 'zu one is currently taking? If history repeats, perhaps when/if the formula stops working a different formulation may work.
Consistency is always important - mixing things up (i.e. this formula vs. that formula) will certainly taint any results.
As long as we are all cognizant of what we are taking the necessary dosages will become apparent. Plus there's usually at least one person who works at the health food store who is generally pretty knowledgeable about dangers and max dosages.
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #266 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:05am » |
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The only part of Mr. Happy's suggestion that might be difficult is that it is easier for some people to get certain brands. What I mean is, not every health food store sells the same freakin stuff...which is frustrating. Granted, I can probably get any kind of kudzu out there via the internet. But, in general, people will do what is easiest. That said, I am willing to "go out of the way..." or whatever.
What I was thinking is that if we knew which ingredients were essential. I can't remember what flo's original post said, or if it said, whether it was the Pueraria - root, or root extract...or if it is the daidzin, that is active on my head. Maybe it doesn't matter. Through all of this rambling I think I am trying to say that when it comes to doses, maybe we shouldn't advise people in terms of pill size, but on something that is more consistent or measurable - that is, the amount of Kudzu Root, or Kudzu Root Extract, or Daidzin, that is actually in the pill. One person could be taking 1500 mgs a day, but getting the same amount of kudzu or daidzin as I am in only taking 450 mgs.
I don't know. That's enough out of me...I just study theology.
Casey
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Lobster
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #267 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:29am » |
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Heh heh... I am gonna grow bitch tits...
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Bob P
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #268 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:32am » |
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Looking at Koodzoo on the web, Inoticed that a lot of the stuff for sale also contains magnesium. Marc Kurth, at CalOUCH, was having pretty good results from mega-magnesium. Just an observation.
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #269 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:36am » |
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Some thoughts:
1) people have reported improvement with atleast 4 brands - while there may be variation, there are also results.
2) More people need to post to the first week survey, then maybe we'll get a clearer picture on brands and doses.
3) Standardizing to daidzin tells us something, but may not be all that useful. We don't know the ingredient(s) that are doing the job. Daidzin is one marker of kudzu isoflavone content, but with different extraction processes and natural variation in the root, 1% daidzin tells us nothing about the amount of puerarin and other compounds.
There was a big standardization debate around other herbs - for St. Johns wort, most extracts were standardized to a chemical called hypericin. They still don't understand St Johns wort, but they do know that atleast one other compound (hyperforin) seems to be more important than hypericin.
Unfortunately, most brands out there are either standardized to daidzin, not standardized, or standardized but kept secret. Kudzu is not a high volume seller, so there is no guaranteed 'fingerprinting' as is seen for some herbs. I thought of contacting the manufacturers, but doubt they will give much information. An independent analysis of the major brands makes sense, but takes time and money. Will check with a few friends that run chemistry labs to see if they provide more info or do the analyses.
4) If you found something that works, you might want to stick with it. Get a feel for what dose is optimal for you. If you don't get a good response and are at the maximum reccommended dose for a week, consider switching. If you are having side-effects, consider stopping or switching, especially if you take a blend that has more than kudzu or kudzu extract.
5) More people need to post to the first week survey, then maybe we'll get a clearer picture on brands and doses. I know of several people that have gone more than a week, have good results, and haven't posted. Don't make me drive out to your house and knock on your door!
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #270 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:40am » |
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on Mar 4th, 2005, 8:32am, Bob P wrote:| Looking at Koodzoo on the web, Inoticed that a lot of the stuff for sale also contains magnesium. Marc Kurth, at CalOUCH, was having pretty good results from mega-magnesium. Just an observation. |
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Magnesium is good stuff, and there is evidence it can weaken the beast. Many supplements contain magnesium stearate as a binding agent, but I think it is in a small amount compared to anything sold as a magnesium supplement. In phase 2, my Floridian Brand Anti-Cluster Formula will contain magnesium.
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Magnesium
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:42am by floridian » |
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vig
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #271 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:57am » |
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The other consideration besides number of grams is potency. How old and dried up is the stuff being sold?
I know with coffee, peppers, and mushrooms, a lot of the 'action' has to do with potency and freshness. Once any of them get 'stale' they're pretty useless. I've bought health store herbs before and they're usually really weak.
So, just to be difficult, I plan on digging up fresh root and seeing what can be made of it.
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LeLimey
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #272 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 9:05am » |
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Hi Floridian,
I'm getting a bit bogged down here. What supplements would you recommend? I'm reading about magnesium and coq10 and allsorts and I don't quite know which will work together or counteract or what?
help!
Thanks
Helen
PS I've ordered both melatonin and kudzu from vitacost which is due for delivery either today or monday *fingers crossed for today*
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2005, 9:05am by LeLimey » |
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PCMCCK
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #273 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 9:10am » |
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I have read virtually all of the posts here about kudzu and the apparently beneficial effects that it has on cluster headaches, but unless I have overlooked something (quite possible, since so much has been written), have any scientific studies been done by an accredited American institute, medical or university, with the usual rigorous controls that can substantiate that this plant actually works in the prevention of cluster headache pain or can abort an attack? I have checked with European neurologists who are quite reputable in the field and do much research and they do not know of any. My second question is that if such studies have been done and have shown that the use of kudzu is very beneficial for CH sufferers, are there plans to market the medication for physicians to prescribe for the treatment of CH patients? Thank you.
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #274 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 9:13am » |
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Floridian posted the initial info and I was desperate. It was kudzu or 'shrooms at that point for me. I'm sure glad I tried kudzu!!!
I'm sure flo will follow with "real" info on this.
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