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Topic: 5-HT activity in Kudzu (Read 32698 times) |
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #300 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 4:36pm » |
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on Mar 4th, 2005, 4:09pm, Margi wrote:
so, Bob, does that mean that they would cancel each other our, or does it mean that it's dangerous to take both?
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Most likely that kudzu would interfere with the clusterbusting. I think they use chlorpromazine to bring people down from bad trips, and it has been described as an unpleasant experience, although it does put a stop to the visions.
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thudpucker
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #301 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 4:42pm » |
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Isoflavones/phytoestrogen: seems like if this was a real problem, soy beans wouldn't have the popularity they do. According to what I read, long-term, regular ingestion of soy isoflavones in the orient hasn't disclosed any detrimental effects.
But my real question is whether anyone's tried swapping melatonin for kudzu, which is what I have in mind.
Except for a really lousy two-week run while I had a virus/bronchitis, melatonin's kept me pain-free since the start of my cycle in October (due to end April or so). While I was having headaches again, I upped the melatonin from 6mg to 9mg. I'm now back down to 6mg and still pain-free, but I'm wondering whether I might be experiencing some side-effects from melatonin (too much tiredness, down moods bordering on depression).
And that's why I'd like to swap melatonin for kudzu.
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toolong
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #302 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 4:53pm » |
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10 Days taking Kudzu (Solaray Kudzu extract 150 mg.),and of all the crap the witch doctors have prescribed for me since I became chronic,it seems to be working like a dream.I take one in the morning and one at bedtime.Sometimes I may take my regular hit of 02 if there are some shadows lurking.Not really sure if it's the zu or maybe just the power of suggestion,but this stuff seems to work!!!!!As for the man boobs,none yet but if I've got to grow some hooters for a PF life so be it.And just a comment on the limp noodle thing,so far no problems.I'm a 55 year old male that still loves sex,but if I can be PF and need a Viagra to get it up then I'll take the Viagra.I've been taking Nadolol as the only prevenative with 02 for my CH.Have not backed off the Nadolol enjoying some pain free days without taking any risks.I may taper off if the PF days continue.It makes me always tired.Good luck to all!I hope we all share great sucess with the zu.Thanks for CH.com and all of you who contribute.  David
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Jeepgun
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #303 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 4:59pm » |
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Outstanding, David!! Congratulations!!
(If you end up growing a nice set of boobs, uh... can I play with 'em?)   
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Bob P
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #304 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 5:03pm » |
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Quote:so, Bob, does that mean that they would cancel each other our, or does it mean that it's dangerous to take both?
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Guess it would be more like a race. Whichever one gets there first wins.
Agonist attaches to the 5-HT2 receptor sites and acts LIKE a 5-HT2 signal.
Antagonist attaches to the 5-HT2 sites and BLOCKS the signals from reaching the receptor sites.
The first one to a site gets to attach, the other gets to float around in Fantastic Voyage style looking for someplace to call home. The receptor sites are always releasing their little messengers and looking for new ones. So maybe they would cancel, half the sites grabbing agonists and half antagonists.
Don't know that it would dangerous but probably not very productive. I'd say, like Floridian, pick one and give it a shot.
I'm gonna go play with my boobs now.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2005, 5:10pm by Bob P » |
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PCMCCK
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #305 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:22pm » |
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I did not smoke for 2 weeks and received oxygen daily, 24 hours a day during that time while hospitalized and could only take 1/4 of my CH medication and I was in agonizing pain during the whole time, so for me, at least, smoking cessation and oxygen had no beneficial effect on my CCH.
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Racer1_NC
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #306 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 8:34am » |
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Well.....my great Kudzu experiment is pretty much over. I started on the 25th, stopped the verap 2 days ago, hit twice last night...just like 2 weeks ago when I tapered the verap taking nothing else. Back to the verap, and off the Kudzu.
My conclusions.......worth a shot if you are getting hit, but do not stop what you are doing....if what you are doing is working. Your mileage may vary.
Damn it.
Bill
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Jeepgun
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #307 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 1:03pm » |
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Sorry it didn't work out for you, Bill. I hope you get some relief....
The day before yesterday, I took FOUR doses instead of three, because I'd had three shadows (or mild hits..) and was worried that I would get hit at night. No shadows, no hits. Yesterday, I took two doses, and then forgot the damn kudzu pills at work. Last night, I got hit at 1:00 a.m. with a half-hour hit, that was hard enough to make me pace and grind the heel of my palm into my eye, in addition to patting/pounding my brow on the affected side with my palm. (Other than that, I've given up on head-banging). After a thirty minute dance, I went back to bed and slept for the rest of the night. (I'm going back to pick up my kudzu today...) The only other thing I'm taking is a multi-vitamin. Strange cycle, this time around....
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #308 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 2:31pm » |
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Sorry, Bill. 
Good point about what works. I am tapering off the lithium and Neurontin I am using as prevents. I have to stay on verap for blood pressure. The prevent combo wasn't really working for me. I had some room to increase my dosages, but really didn't want to do that. I stayed on them as I started the kudzu and only started to taper down when I saw the kudzu was continuing to work for me. I am hoping I can get off of them completely someday, but I'm not in a hurry...as long as things are working. I'm down to 1/6 th my prescribed Neurontin dosage and 1/2 the lithium.
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Racer1_NC
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #309 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 3:00pm » |
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I am unhappy that it didn't work.....I was hoping to find a alternate for the verap so I would not have to stay on it ALL the time. It could be much worse, been there, done that.
Once again......if you are thinking about trying it, don't let my failure stop you. Kuduz could help you. Heck, Melatonin didn't help me either.
Looking for the next magic pill............
Bill
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Jeepgun
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #310 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 3:48pm » |
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Yeah... Melatonin didn't do crap for me, either. It just made me feel like I'd been hit by a bus, the next morning... Yuck...
Hang in there, Bill.
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #311 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 7:47pm » |
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Update-
Went completely off the Verap 2 days ago. I have been tapering since I started the Kudzu. Today, some serious shadows all day, with some definate spikes. Today has been my worst day since I started the Kudzu. That said, it is still better than most days before Kud. I don't know if it has to do with the Verap, or if I am just stressed, or what the deal is.
On the bright side, Zoolander is on TV, and I think it is the funniest movie ever made.
Casey
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #312 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 9:11pm » |
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I had a "bad" day, too, Casey. Persistent shadows most of the morning, albeit only k3s. Also my worst day since kudzu. When I think about pre-kudzu days, today would've been a cakewalk. I'm finding that I'm becoming more annoyed at any pain. I wouldn't say my tolerance is lower, just that I'm no longer complacent about it.
Was the verap by itself working for you before?
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Shiraj
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #313 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 9:49pm » |
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hey you guys should try a red bull for the shadows. It works out really well for me, kills shadows within 5 minutes, its $3 a can though. Maybe you could get your doctors to write prescriptions for red bull 
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #315 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 10:56pm » |
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on Mar 5th, 2005, 9:11pm, nani wrote:| I'm finding that I'm becoming more annoyed at any pain. |
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I have been feeling the exact same way nani. Its almost as if I have gotten used to having little to no pain, and any pain I do get just really sucks. Its still hammering me now.
The Verap had a mildly beneficial effect. That said, I have been on so many drugs over the past 6 months that I really don't know what had which effect. I was still getting hit with the Verap, and I was still getting hit hard. Did it disrupt things, maybe, probably.
Anyway, off to drink a Red Bull.
Casey
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #316 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 11:02pm » |
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I know what you mean, Casey. I think I'd be content to stay on the prevents I'm on now (without having to increase, at least) and continue the kudzu if that was my only shot at relief.
I prefer a good strong cup of coffee for my shadows. On occasion, an Excedrin Migraine even helps. My problem with the caffeine intake is my pretty chronic insomnia. I don't have any regularity to my sleep patterns. So even though I'm one of the rare CHers who doesn't usually get hit at night, my hypothalmathingy is still messed up as far as sleep goes.
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #317 on: Mar 6th, 2005, 2:22am » |
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toolong
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #318 on: Mar 6th, 2005, 7:03am » |
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Kudzu seemed to be working well for me,maybe I should even say "GREAT".But very early this morning woke with a kip 5.Really suprised me,been doing really fine up untill now.Hope it doesn't go much further have a really busy day planned.12 days doing the zu and only a few shadows,hope the magic of this doesn't fade.Going to wait and see how things go,still tired from lack of sleep.Hit the 02 and didn't help much...maybe some coffee.Anyway might increase the zu if this thing doesn't subside.It's Sunday hope it's a PF day for everyone!  David
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Shiraj
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #319 on: Mar 6th, 2005, 2:13pm » |
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hey i dont know wtf this has to do with kudzu but if anyone has some nettles around them and also wants to experiment. Probably cheaper than imitrex :
It used to be thought that the main constituent of the sting was formic acid - the same chemical used by ants, giving that never forgotten burning sensation that demands to be scratched. Although formic acid is present in the sting, recent research has shown that the main chemicals are histamine, acetylcholine and 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin). A fourth ingredient has yet to be identified.
http://www.nettles.org.uk/nettles/lore.asp
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #320 on: Mar 6th, 2005, 4:05pm » |
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I walked through a patch of stinging nettles about 25 years ago - very unpleasant. Large areas of skin felt like they were on fire. After what seemed like 10-15 minutes, the skin was suddenly back to normal.
Some herbalists use freeze-dried nettles in capsules for treating allergies - it is a do-it-yourself histamine desensitization. I don't think I would try it, it could trigger an allergic crisis that requires an adrenaline shot to open the breathing passages. That type of allergic crisis (anaphylaxis) is life-threatening.
Boiled nettles lose all the sting, but are a nutritious vegetable. No danger there.
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #321 on: Mar 7th, 2005, 12:50am » |
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The last thing I'd give a cluster sufferer outside of a hospital setting would be anything containing histamine. Even in the histamine treatment, if the flow is set too high, it WILL induce a cluster attack. The key to the desensitization is a low/constant dose. Don't think I'd want to eat a Nettle every hour on the hour for a few weeks. Plus not knowing how large a dose is in one.
Bobw
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seasonalboomer
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #322 on: Mar 7th, 2005, 8:21am » |
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Day 10 - Zu Testing
A good weekend. Pretty much a return to "normal life" with a slight awareness that the beast still lurks. Went running Sunday morning and had a shadow afterwards for 30 minutes. Thanked the guy upstairs for creating Kudzu after it was over and went about my day.
Came up with analogy for how the Kudzu seems to "feel". It's like a condom for Cluster Headaches....... I'm not sure that's much help for understanding for the ladies, but guys, you might get my drift.
Sorry to hear results are a little inconsistent -- kind of like everything else that works for some and not others. At least it's a low cost option for a try for those willing to give it a go. It doesn't sound like the percentages are all that different than success ratios for just about everything else on the list for the clusterhead main survey.
I'm going to see how this week goes with a return to normal activity levels and if things seem okay by midweek consider coming off the zu to see if the cycle is wrapping up.
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Jeepgun
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #323 on: Mar 7th, 2005, 9:08am » |
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Well, hell... How much of this is because of the kudzu and how much of it is because this seems to be a really odd cycle?
I was pain-free all weekend. Saturday, I took four doses. Sunday, I took one dose. Sunday afternoon, while reading a book, I had a very mild hit. Just barely noticeable... Other than that, I've been pain-free.
/not looking a gift-horse in the mouth....
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #324 on: Mar 7th, 2005, 9:13am » |
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I like your analogy, boomer. I got hit yesterday, or mini-hit, if you will. I was telling my husband that it was like there was a "barrier" between the pain and my pain receptors. It only lasted about 10 minutes and didn't go over a 3...but it was a hit. Came on fast and with intensity. Lots of shadows over the weekend and I'm probably going to add another 750 mgs today. So my total daily will be 2250 mgs. Still thinking that this is a whole lot better than before. 
Question Flo...Are phyto estrogens the same kind one would get in "bio-identical" HRT? I used oral estrogen for years that did nothing. My accupuncturist prescribed bio-identical hormones (applied on the skin) and there was an instant improvement. I'm not using them now...just wondering.
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